• Sign In
  • Create Account
  • Sign Out
  • My Account
  • NEWS
  • PRODUCTS
  • CONTRACTORS
  • ENGINEERS
  • RADIANT & HYDRONICS
  • INSIGHTS
  • MEDIA
  • RESOURCES
  • EMAGAZINE
  • SIGN UP!
cart
facebook instagram twitter linkedin youtube
  • CONTRACTORS
  • BATH & KITCHEN PRO
  • BUSINESS MANAGEMENT
  • HIGH EFFICIENCY HOMES
  • TECHNOLOGY
  • WATER TREATMENT
  • PMC COLUMNS
  • PMC COLUMNS
  • Dave Yates: Contractor’s Corner
  • John Siegenthaler: Hydronics Workshop
  • Kenny Chapman: The Blue Collar Coach
  • Matt Michel: Service Plumbing Pros
  • Scott Secor: Heating Perceptions
  • ENGINEERS
  • CONTINUING EDUCATION
  • DECARBONIZATION | ELECTRIFICATION
  • FIRE PROTECTION
  • GEOTHERMAL | SOLAR THERMAL
  • PIPING | PLUMBING | PVF
  • PME COLUMNS
  • PME COLUMNS
  • Christoph Lohr: Strategic Plumbing Insights
  • David Dexter: Plumbing Talking Points
  • James Dipping: Engineer Viewpoints
  • John Seigenthaler: Renewable Heating Design
  • Lowell Manalo: Plumbing Essentials
  • Misty Guard: Guard on Compliance
  • RADIANT & HYDRONICS
  • RADIANT COMFORT REPORT
  • THE GLITCH & THE FIX
  • INSIGHTS
  • CODES
  • GREEN PLUMBING & MECHANICAL
  • PROJECT PROFILES
  • COLUMNS
  • SPONSOR INSIGHTS
  • COLUMNS
  • Codes Corner
  • Natalie Forster: Editorial Opinion
  • Guest Editorial
  • MEDIA
  • PODCASTS
  • VIDEOS
  • WEBINARS
  • RESOURCES
  • INDUSTRY CALENDAR
  • DIRECTORIES
  • EBOOKS
  • PM BOOKSTORE
  • CE CENTER
  • MARKET RESEARCH
  • CLASSIFIEDS
  • EMAGAZINE
  • EMAGAZINE
  • ARCHIVE ISSUES
  • CONTACT
  • ADVERTISE
  • PME EMAGAZINE ARCHIVES
search
cart
facebook instagram twitter linkedin youtube
  • Sign In
  • Create Account
  • Sign Out
  • My Account
  • NEWS
  • PRODUCTS
  • CONTRACTORS
    • BATH & KITCHEN PRO
    • BUSINESS MANAGEMENT
    • HIGH EFFICIENCY HOMES
    • TECHNOLOGY
    • WATER TREATMENT
    • PMC COLUMNS
      • Dave Yates: Contractor’s Corner
      • John Siegenthaler: Hydronics Workshop
      • Kenny Chapman: The Blue Collar Coach
      • Matt Michel: Service Plumbing Pros
      • Scott Secor: Heating Perceptions
  • ENGINEERS
    • CONTINUING EDUCATION
    • DECARBONIZATION | ELECTRIFICATION
    • FIRE PROTECTION
    • GEOTHERMAL | SOLAR THERMAL
    • PIPING | PLUMBING | PVF
    • PME COLUMNS
      • Christoph Lohr: Strategic Plumbing Insights
      • David Dexter: Plumbing Talking Points
      • James Dipping: Engineer Viewpoints
      • John Seigenthaler: Renewable Heating Design
      • Lowell Manalo: Plumbing Essentials
      • Misty Guard: Guard on Compliance
  • RADIANT & HYDRONICS
    • RADIANT COMFORT REPORT
    • THE GLITCH & THE FIX
  • INSIGHTS
    • CODES
    • GREEN PLUMBING & MECHANICAL
    • PROJECT PROFILES
    • COLUMNS
      • Codes Corner
      • Natalie Forster: Editorial Opinion
      • Guest Editorial
    • SPONSOR INSIGHTS
  • MEDIA
    • PODCASTS
    • VIDEOS
    • WEBINARS
  • RESOURCES
    • INDUSTRY CALENDAR
    • DIRECTORIES
    • EBOOKS
    • PM BOOKSTORE
    • CE CENTER
    • MARKET RESEARCH
    • CLASSIFIEDS
  • EMAGAZINE
    • EMAGAZINE
    • ARCHIVE ISSUES
    • CONTACT
    • ADVERTISE
    • PME EMAGAZINE ARCHIVES
  • SIGN UP!
Plumbing NewsRadiant & HydronicsThe Glitch & The Fix

The Glitch & The Fix: Busy backup

The Glitch
The Fix
The Glitch
The Fix
December 22, 2020

The Glitch:

A heating designer is asked to create a three zone radiant floor heating system using a 5-ton (60,000 Btu/h) geothermal heat pump as the primary heat source, and a mod/con boiler as the auxiliary heat source. Because of the symmetry of the building, each zone will have a six circuit manifold station with nearly identical circuit lengths. All the floor heating circuits are underfloor tubing with aluminum plates stapled tightly to the underside of the sulfuring and well insulated.

The designer sets up a primary secondary system where each heat source connects to the primary loop using a pair of closely spaced tees, as shown in Figure 1.

The Glitch

Each manifold station is also supplied from a pair of closely spaced tees installed in parallel “crossovers” of the primary loop. This keeps the supply water temperature to each manifold station approximately equal. The system has a seven identical 1/25 HP circulators.

The two heat sources are controlled by a 2-stage setpoint controller. When there’s a demand for heat from any of the zones that controller looks at the temperature at the supply sensor, and uses the following logic:

Stage 1:

If Ts ≤ 115ºF then heat pump = ON

If Ts ≥ 117ºF the heat pump = OFF

 

Stage 2:

If Ts ≤ 112ºF then boiler = ON

If Ts ≥ 125ºF the boiler = OFF

When put into operation the heat pump short cycles. The boiler runs much longer than the heat pump.

Look over the system closely. Can you spot several details that are either incorrect or missing?  Can you propose an alternative design that would accomplish the same goals using less hardware?

 

The Fix:

The system in Figure 1 is peppered with errors and omissions, including:

  • A 1/25 HP circulator might be adequate for a zone, but it’s not going to have sufficient head and flow to serve a 5-ton geothermal heat pump;
     
  • There’s no air separator or expansion tank in the earth loop;
     
  • All earth loop circuits must be filled and purged in parallel. While possible, this requires a much more powerful purging pump, compared to situations where each loop can be filled and purged individually;
     
  • Both circulators on the heat pump are “pulling” flow through their respective heat exchangers. These heat exchangers typically have high pressure drops. This combination could lead to cavitation in the circulators. It always better to “push” flow into high resistance components. Same point for the boiler circulator;
     
  • The controller on/off settings for stage 1 are much too close, especially for a low thermal mass radiant panel. This is the underlying cause of the short cycling;
     
  • The off-setting for stage 2 is several degrees higher than stage 1, causing the boiler to remain on after stage 1 has been “satisfied,” and thus turns off;
     
  • The expansion tank is poor placed relative to the circulators, this will cause drop in system pressure when the primary loop circulator is on;
     
  • Two of the purging valves are upside down;
     
  • There’s no pressure relief valve in the system;
     
  • There will be some flow imbalance between the manifold stations due to the use of direct return piping. The zone 1 crossover will get more flow than that of zone 2. The zone 2 crossover will get more flow than zone 3;
     
  • The supply temperature sensor should be downstream of both heat sources. As shown in Figure 1 it senses heat input from the heat pump, but not (directly) from the boiler. Once the boiler is turned on it will remain on until the return temperature from the crossovers reaches 125° F, which is significantly higher than necessary;
     
  • The air separator should be available to both heat sources, not just the boiler;
     
  • The position of the backflow preventer and pressure reducing valve on the make-up water system is reversed; and
     
  • There is no way to isolate either heat source from the remainder of the system is necessary for service.

One way to eliminate these issues is shown in Figure 2.

The Fix

 

 

Both heat sources can operate individually or in parallel supplying heat to a buffer tank. The mass of the buffer tank stabilized the system against short cycling.

The temperature of the buffer tank is now controlled by a 2-stage outdoor reset controller rather than a setpoint controller. The heat pump is the fixed lead heat source, and the boiler the backup. As the outdoor temperature increases the temperature of the buffer tank is reduced, which increases the COP of the heat pump and the efficiency of the boiler.

The distribution system is zoned with valves and supplied by a pressure-regulated variable speed circulator. This reduces circulator count and greatly reduces the electrical energy required to operate the system.

Each heat source can be isolated from the remainder of the system if necessary for service. Check valves are used to prevent flow reversal or heat migration through either heat source when it is off. A combination air/dirt separator and expansion tank have been added to the earth loop system.  

Each earth loop can be isolated by ball valves, allow for faster filling and flushing. A pressure relief valve and properly configured make-up water assembly have been added to the system.

The earth loop circulator is pumping away from the expansion tank location, and thus increasing pressure in the earth loop circuits and heat pump evaporator when operating.

 

Download The Glitch and Fix: December 2020 in pdf form.

KEYWORDS: plumbers and pipefitters radiant heating troubleshooting zoning

Share This Story

Looking for a reprint of this article?
From high-res PDFs to custom plaques, order your copy today!

Recommended Content

JOIN TODAY
to unlock your recommendations.

Already have an account? Sign In

  • Worker using the Milwaukee Tool SWITCH PACK drain cleaner

    Pipeline profits: Drain cleaning, pipe inspection create opportunities

    Drain cleaning and inspection services offer lucrative...
    Green Plumbing and Mechanical
    By: Nicole Krawcke
  • Uponor employee, Arturo Moreno

    The reinvestment in American manufacturing and training

    Plumbing & Mechanical Chief Editor Nicole Krawcke and...
    Plumbing News
    By: Nicole Krawcke and Natalie Forster
  • March 2024 Women in Plumbing hero image of woman engineer overlayed by circle of hexagon shapes with numbers from 1 to 10

    Celebrating 10 Influential Women in the Plumbing Industry

    Celebrating Women's History Month and Women in...
    Plumbing News
    By: Nicole Krawcke
Subscribe For Free!
  • eNewsletters
  • Online Registration
  • Subscription Customer Service
  • eMagazine
  • Manage My Preferences

NIBCO Press Solutions

NIBCO Press Solutions

IPEX celebrates grand opening of new Florida distribution center

IPEX celebrates grand opening of new Florida distribution center

AI can boost efficiency and profitability for plumbing, HVAC contractors

AI can boost efficiency and profitability for plumbing, HVAC contractors

Bell & Gossett Illustrates Path to Net-zero at AHR Expo

Bell & Gossett Illustrates Path to Net-zero at AHR Expo

More Videos

Sponsored Content

Sponsored Content is a special paid section where industry companies provide high quality, objective, non-commercial content around topics of interest to the Plumbing & Mechanical audience. All Sponsored Content is supplied by the advertising company and any opinions expressed in this article are those of the author and not necessarily reflect the views of Plumbing & Mechanical or its parent company, BNP Media. Interested in participating in our Sponsored Content section? Contact your local rep!

close
  • J.J. Keller CMV vehicles on road
    Sponsored byJ. J. Keller & Associates, Inc.

    The dash cam game-changer for small business safety

Popular Stories

Underfloor heating installation with drain sewer hole in bathroom close up on water floor heating.

Using hydronics to leverage time-of-use electrical rates

Watts Nexa mobile image

Behind the Wall: Where smart plumbing gets smarter

Six tankless water heaters that feed the nutraceutical manufacturer’s operations.

How to deliver large volumes of hot water quickly and intermittently

PMCE Home-X April 29 Free Webinar: From Legacy to Leadership: Preparing Your Home Services Business for the Next Generation

Events

November 13, 2024

Future Proofing MEP: Navigating the 2026 High Efficiency Water Heating Standards

Join our deep dive into DOE’s new standards so you can future-proof your MEP practice.

EARN: 0.1 ASPE CEU; 1 AIA LU/HSW; 0.1 IACET CEU*; 1 PDH

View All Submit An Event

Poll

Will business be up or down in 2025?

Do you anticipate business in 2025 to be up or down in comparison to 2024?
View Results Poll Archive

Products

The Water Came To A Stop

The Water Came To A Stop

See More Products

Download the FREE Water Conservation, Quality & Safety eBook: Plumbing Trends Increasing Safe Water Availability

Related Articles

  • The Glitch and The Fix Figures 1 and 2

    The Glitch & The Fix: Identify the flow problems

    See More
  • glitch-fix-feature

    The Glitch & The Fix: Upside down

    See More
  • G&F February 2022 - Glitch

    The Glitch + The Fix: Fingers crossed

    See More

Related Products

See More Products
  • what hydronics taught holohan.jpg

    What Hydronics Taught Holohan: A Memoir of Life in the Heating Industry

  • M:\General Shared\__AEC Store Katie Z\AEC Store\Images\Plumbing\new sites\classic_hydronics.gif

    Classic Hydronics - How To Get The Most From Those Older Hot-Water Heating Systems

  • 51CHeeKvw4L._SX322_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    Hydronic Radiant Heating: A Practical Guide for the Nonengineer Installer

See More Products

Events

View AllSubmit An Event
  • April 10, 2014

    Workshop: Hydronics for High Efficiency Wood-fired and Pellet-fired Boilers

    Session added to April 9-11 Northeast Biomass Heating Expo.
View AllSubmit An Event
×

Keep your content unclogged with our newsletters!

Stay in the know on the latest plumbing & piping industry trends.

JOIN TODAY!
  • RESOURCES
    • Advertise
    • Contact Us
    • Directories
    • Store
    • Want More
    • Supply House Times
  • SIGN UP TODAY
    • Create Account
    • eMagazine
    • eNewsletter
    • Customer Service
    • Manage Preferences
  • SERVICES
    • Marketing Services
    • Reprints
    • Market Research
    • List Rental
    • Survey/Respondent Access
  • STAY CONNECTED
    • LinkedIn
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • YouTube
    • X (Twitter)
  • PRIVACY
    • PRIVACY POLICY
    • TERMS & CONDITIONS
    • DO NOT SELL MY PERSONAL INFORMATION
    • PRIVACY REQUEST
    • ACCESSIBILITY

Copyright ©2025. All Rights Reserved BNP Media.

Design, CMS, Hosting & Web Development :: ePublishing

search
cart
facebook instagram twitter linkedin youtube
  • Sign In
  • Create Account
  • Sign Out
  • My Account
  • NEWS
  • PRODUCTS
  • CONTRACTORS
    • BATH & KITCHEN PRO
    • BUSINESS MANAGEMENT
    • HIGH EFFICIENCY HOMES
    • TECHNOLOGY
    • WATER TREATMENT
    • PMC COLUMNS
      • Dave Yates: Contractor’s Corner
      • John Siegenthaler: Hydronics Workshop
      • Kenny Chapman: The Blue Collar Coach
      • Matt Michel: Service Plumbing Pros
      • Scott Secor: Heating Perceptions
  • ENGINEERS
    • CONTINUING EDUCATION
    • DECARBONIZATION | ELECTRIFICATION
    • FIRE PROTECTION
    • GEOTHERMAL | SOLAR THERMAL
    • PIPING | PLUMBING | PVF
    • PME COLUMNS
      • Christoph Lohr: Strategic Plumbing Insights
      • David Dexter: Plumbing Talking Points
      • James Dipping: Engineer Viewpoints
      • John Seigenthaler: Renewable Heating Design
      • Lowell Manalo: Plumbing Essentials
      • Misty Guard: Guard on Compliance
  • RADIANT & HYDRONICS
    • RADIANT COMFORT REPORT
    • THE GLITCH & THE FIX
  • INSIGHTS
    • CODES
    • GREEN PLUMBING & MECHANICAL
    • PROJECT PROFILES
    • COLUMNS
      • Codes Corner
      • Natalie Forster: Editorial Opinion
      • Guest Editorial
    • SPONSOR INSIGHTS
  • MEDIA
    • PODCASTS
    • VIDEOS
    • WEBINARS
  • RESOURCES
    • INDUSTRY CALENDAR
    • DIRECTORIES
    • EBOOKS
    • PM BOOKSTORE
    • CE CENTER
    • MARKET RESEARCH
    • CLASSIFIEDS
  • EMAGAZINE
    • EMAGAZINE
    • ARCHIVE ISSUES
    • CONTACT
    • ADVERTISE
    • PME EMAGAZINE ARCHIVES
  • SIGN UP!