search
cart
facebook instagram twitter linkedin youtube
  • Sign In
  • Create Account
  • Sign Out
  • My Account
  • NEWS
  • PRODUCTS
    • FEATURED PRODUCTS
  • CONTRACTORS
    • BATH & KITCHEN PRO
    • BUSINESS MANAGEMENT
    • HIGH EFFICIENCY HOMES
    • TECHNOLOGY
    • WATER TREATMENT
    • PMC COLUMNS
      • Dave Yates: Contractor’s Corner
      • John Siegenthaler: Hydronics Workshop
      • Kenny Chapman: The Blue Collar Coach
      • Matt Michel: Service Plumbing Pros
      • Scott Secor: Heating Perceptions
  • ENGINEERS
    • CONTINUING EDUCATION
    • DECARBONIZATION | ELECTRIFICATION
    • FIRE PROTECTION
    • GEOTHERMAL | SOLAR THERMAL
    • PIPING | PLUMBING | PVF
    • PME COLUMNS
      • Christoph Lohr: Strategic Plumbing Insights
      • David Dexter: Plumbing Talking Points
      • James Dipping: Engineer Viewpoints
      • John Seigenthaler: Renewable Heating Design
      • Lowell Manalo: Plumbing Essentials
      • Misty Guard: Guard on Compliance
  • RADIANT & HYDRONICS
    • RADIANT COMFORT REPORT
    • THE GLITCH & THE FIX
  • INSIGHTS
    • CODES
    • GREEN PLUMBING & MECHANICAL
    • PROJECT PROFILES
    • COLUMNS
      • Codes Corner
      • Natalie Forster: Editorial Opinion
      • Guest Editorial
  • MEDIA
    • EBOOKS
    • PODCASTS
    • VIDEOS
    • WEBINARS
  • RESOURCES
    • INDUSTRY CALENDAR
    • DIRECTORIES
    • PM BOOKSTORE
    • CE CENTER
    • MARKET RESEARCH
    • CLASSIFIEDS
  • EMAGAZINE
    • EMAGAZINE
    • ARCHIVE ISSUES
    • CONTACT
    • ADVERTISE
    • PME EMAGAZINE ARCHIVES
  • SIGN UP!
Radiant & HydronicsThe Glitch & The Fix

The Glitch and Fix: Overly complex

By John Siegenthaler, P.E.
PM0919_TheGlitch.jpg
September 23, 2019

The Glitch:

An installer uses a 4-way motorized mixing valve to interface between a conventional cast-iron boiler and a low temperature radiant panel system. That system also includes an indirect water heater. The system is installed with primary/secondary piping as shown. The mixing valve is located close to the boiler. Can you spot at least four details that are either incorrect, missing, inefficient or unnecessary?

> Figure 1

PM0919_TheGlitch.jpg

 

The Fix:

4-way motorized mixing valves are designed to create two mixing points within the valve body: One to regulate system supply temperature and the other to boost boiler inlet temperature high enough to prevent sustained flue gas condensation. To accomplish the latter, the controller operating the valve's motor must sense and react to boiler inlet temperature. Thus a boiler inlet temperature sensor is required, and is shown in the fix drawing.

> Figure 2

PM0919_TheFix.jpg

Although a primary/secondary system would work, there are simpler and less costly methods to achieve hydraulic separation between the circulators when the boiler and header piping have low flow resistance. 

Use a short and generously sized header between the boiler and 4-way valve. The combined effects of buoyancy and momentum exchange within the valve will generate sufficient flow through the cast iron boiler. 

This eliminates the need for a primary loop and associated primary circulator. It also eliminates what would be reduced water temperature to the indirect water heater coil if the space heating subsystem is active, and the indirect water heater was not operated as a priority load.

In the glitch drawing, the primary loop circulator is pumping toward rather than away from the location where the expansion tank connects to the system. That’s definitely wrong. So is the placement of the secondary circulator serving the indirect water heater. Secondary circulators should always direct water into the secondary circuit. This treats the upstream tee of the closely spaced pair as the point of no pressure change for the secondary circuit, allowing pressure within the secondary circuit to increase when its circulator is operating.

The supply temperature sensor is located immediately downstream of the 4-way mixing valve in the glitch drawing. Although mixing has begun by the time flow passes this sensor location, it may not be complete, and thus the sensor may not be sensing the final blended temperature supplied to the manifold station. It’s always good practice to install the supply temperature sensor downstream of the distribution circulator to ensure complete mixing has occurred before flow passes the sensor.

Finally, purging valves have been added to the return ends of both load circuits in the fix drawing.

 

Please read here to view The Glitch and Fix: September 2019 in pdf form.

KEYWORDS: contractors radiant panels radiant systems troubleshooting

Share This Story

Looking for a reprint of this article?
From high-res PDFs to custom plaques, order your copy today!

John siegenthaler 200x200

John Siegenthaler, P.E., is a consulting engineer and principal of Appropriate Designs in Holland Patent, New York. In partnership with HeatSpring, he has developed several online courses that provide in-depth, design-level training in modern hydronics systems, air-to-water heat pumps and biomass boiler systems. Additional information and resources for hydronic system design are available on Siegenthaler’s website,  www.hydronicpros.com.

Recommended Content

JOIN TODAY
to unlock your recommendations.

Already have an account? Sign In

  • 2025 Next Gen ALL-STARS hero 1440

    2025 Next Gen All Stars: Top 20 Under 40 Plumbing Professionals

    This year’s group of NextGen All-Stars is full of young...
    Plumbing & Mechanical Engineer
    By: Kristen R. Bayles
  • Worker using the Milwaukee Tool SWITCH PACK drain cleaner

    Pipeline profits: Drain cleaning, pipe inspection create opportunities

    Drain cleaning and inspection services offer lucrative...
    Green Plumbing and Mechanical
    By: Nicole Krawcke
  • Uponor employee, Arturo Moreno

    The reinvestment in American manufacturing and training

    Plumbing & Mechanical Chief Editor Nicole Krawcke and...
    Plumbing News
    By: Nicole Krawcke and Natalie Forster
Manage My Account
  • eNewsletters
  • Online Registration
  • Subscription Customer Service
  • eMagazine
  • Manage My Preferences

More Videos

Popular Stories

The Glitch & The Fix

Overlooped: Boiler swap gone wrong

Chicago Vintage Apartment Buildings in Portage Park

Invoices, inspections, and integrity: lessons from Leonard

The ribbon-cutting at the Condensing Center of Excellence in Lancaster.

U.S. Boiler Company unveils Condensing Center of Excellence expansion

Register for the November 13 PM Grundfos Webinar: Smart Pumping Strategies for HVAC: Unlock Efficiency with Grundfos E-Pumps and Systems

Poll

Will business be up or down in 2025?

Do you anticipate business in 2025 to be up or down in comparison to 2024?
View Results Poll Archive

Products

The Water Came To A Stop

The Water Came To A Stop

See More Products
eBook | 2025 Radiant & Hydronics All Stars

Related Articles

  • Overly Separated

    See More
  • Overly Complicated

    See More
  • Figure 3 and Figure 5 feature image

    Hindsight - From complex loops to clean headers: simplifying for reliability

    See More

Related Products

See More Products
  • what hydronics taught holohan.jpg

    What Hydronics Taught Holohan: A Memoir of Life in the Heating Industry

  • Classic Hydronics - How To Get The Most From Those Older Hot-Water Heating Systems

  • 51CHeeKvw4L._SX322_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    Hydronic Radiant Heating: A Practical Guide for the Nonengineer Installer

See More Products
×

Keep your content unclogged with our newsletters!

Stay in the know on the latest plumbing & piping industry trends.

JOIN TODAY!
  • RESOURCES
    • Advertise
    • Contact Us
    • Directories
    • Store
    • Want More
    • Supply House Times
  • SIGN UP TODAY
    • Create Account
    • eMagazine
    • eNewsletter
    • Customer Service
    • Manage Preferences
  • SERVICES
    • Marketing Services
    • Reprints
    • Market Research
    • List Rental
    • Survey/Respondent Access
  • STAY CONNECTED
    • LinkedIn
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • YouTube
    • X (Twitter)
  • PRIVACY
    • PRIVACY POLICY
    • TERMS & CONDITIONS
    • DO NOT SELL MY PERSONAL INFORMATION
    • PRIVACY REQUEST
    • ACCESSIBILITY

Copyright ©2025. All Rights Reserved BNP Media.

Design, CMS, Hosting & Web Development :: ePublishing