search
cart
facebook instagram twitter linkedin youtube
  • Sign In
  • Create Account
  • Sign Out
  • My Account
  • NEWS
  • PRODUCTS
    • FEATURED PRODUCTS
  • CONTRACTORS
    • BATH & KITCHEN PRO
    • BUSINESS MANAGEMENT
    • HIGH EFFICIENCY HOMES
    • TECHNOLOGY
    • WATER TREATMENT
    • PMC COLUMNS
      • Dave Yates: Contractor’s Corner
      • John Siegenthaler: Hydronics Workshop
      • Kenny Chapman: The Blue Collar Coach
      • Matt Michel: Service Plumbing Pros
      • Scott Secor: Heating Perceptions
  • ENGINEERS
    • CONTINUING EDUCATION
    • DECARBONIZATION | ELECTRIFICATION
    • FIRE PROTECTION
    • GEOTHERMAL | SOLAR THERMAL
    • PIPING | PLUMBING | PVF
    • PME COLUMNS
      • Christoph Lohr: Strategic Plumbing Insights
      • David Dexter: Plumbing Talking Points
      • James Dipping: Engineer Viewpoints
      • John Seigenthaler: Renewable Heating Design
      • Lowell Manalo: Plumbing Essentials
      • Misty Guard: Guard on Compliance
  • RADIANT & HYDRONICS
    • RADIANT COMFORT REPORT
    • THE GLITCH & THE FIX
  • INSIGHTS
    • CODES
    • GREEN PLUMBING & MECHANICAL
    • PROJECT PROFILES
    • COLUMNS
      • Codes Corner
      • Natalie Forster: Editorial Opinion
      • Guest Editorial
  • MEDIA
    • EBOOKS
    • PODCASTS
    • VIDEOS
    • WEBINARS
  • RESOURCES
    • INDUSTRY CALENDAR
    • DIRECTORIES
    • PM BOOKSTORE
    • CE CENTER
    • MARKET RESEARCH
    • CLASSIFIEDS
  • EMAGAZINE
    • EMAGAZINE
    • ARCHIVE ISSUES
    • CONTACT
    • ADVERTISE
    • PME EMAGAZINE ARCHIVES
  • SIGN UP!
Radiant & HydronicsThe Glitch & The Fix

A Target-Rich Environment - For Errors

By John Siegenthaler, P.E.
September 17, 2010
Here’s a schematic based on a sketch that was sent to me. Make a list of at least five things you think should be changed.



The Glitch

Here’s a schematic based on a sketch that was sent to me.  

After looking things over, my speculation is that this system uses higher-temperature plateless staple-up radiant floor heating along with three zones of baseboard.  

Look over the schematic and make a list of at least five things you think should be changed.

The Fix

Although I can only speculate on the design intent, this system contains several piping details that should be avoided.  

1. If the intent of the boiler bypass was to prevent sustained flue gas condensation, the installer will discover this doesn’t work. The only assured way of preventing sustained flue gas condensation is to measure boiler inlet temperature and partially restrict hot water flow to a low-temperature load when necessary. If we assume all the loads, including the radiant panel circuits, are high-temperature loads, there really is no need for the bypass.  

2. The “bullhead tee” at the top of the main boiler supply pipe is not a good detail. The turbulence it creates causes significant head loss as well as flow noise.  

3. The zone circulators and flow checks should be located on the supply side of the zones to minimize heat migration. Since no expansion tank is shown, there is no way of knowing whether the circulators are attempting to “suck” rather than push flow through the zone circuits.  

4. My preference would be to use a zone circulator rather than a zone valve for the indirect water heater. This will result in higher coil flow rates and higher rates of heat transfer. I would also suggest operating the indirect water heater as a priority load.  

5. When zone valves are used in combination with a fixed-speed circulator, a differential-pressure bypass valve should be used.  

6. Apparently the designer didn’t see a need to install an air separator or purging valves. I‘m not sure how he expects to get the water in or the air out at start-up. I would certainly recommend a make-up water system, central air separator and purging valves.  

7. Indirect water heaters with vertical coils should be piped for counter-flow heat transfer (hot water supplied to top of coil).

Links

  • The Glitch & The Fix September 2010

Share This Story

Looking for a reprint of this article?
From high-res PDFs to custom plaques, order your copy today!

John siegenthaler 200x200

John Siegenthaler, P.E., is a consulting engineer and principal of Appropriate Designs in Holland Patent, New York. In partnership with HeatSpring, he has developed several online courses that provide in-depth, design-level training in modern hydronics systems, air-to-water heat pumps and biomass boiler systems. Additional information and resources for hydronic system design are available on Siegenthaler’s website,  www.hydronicpros.com.

Recommended Content

JOIN TODAY
to unlock your recommendations.

Already have an account? Sign In

  • 2025 Next Gen ALL-STARS hero 1440

    2025 Next Gen All Stars: Top 20 Under 40 Plumbing Professionals

    This year’s group of NextGen All-Stars is full of young...
    Plumbing & Mechanical Engineer
    By: Kristen R. Bayles
  • Worker using the Milwaukee Tool SWITCH PACK drain cleaner

    Pipeline profits: Drain cleaning, pipe inspection create opportunities

    Drain cleaning and inspection services offer lucrative...
    Plumbing News
    By: Nicole Krawcke
  • Uponor employee, Arturo Moreno

    The reinvestment in American manufacturing and training

    Plumbing & Mechanical Chief Editor Nicole Krawcke and...
    Plumbing News
    By: Nicole Krawcke and Natalie Forster
Manage My Account
  • Newsletters
  • Online Registration
  • Subscription Customer Service
  • eMagazine
  • Manage My Preferences

More Videos

Popular Stories

Hot water pipes

Campus shutdown at Oakland University exposes hidden risks of aging hot-water infrastructure

Floor heating manifold cabinet with flowmeter and PEX pipe.

Elegance extended: How to use the homerun system of connecting heat emitters

Industrial pressure gauge on a tank.

From cutting edge to classic: How to modernize outdated pneumatic control systems

Poll

Will business be up or down in 2025?

Do you anticipate business in 2025 to be up or down in comparison to 2024?
View Results Poll Archive

Products

The Water Came To A Stop

The Water Came To A Stop

See More Products
eBook | 2025 Radiant & Hydronics All Stars

Related Articles

  • Can You Spot The Errors?

    See More
  • It represents the manufacturer’s recommendation for installing a two-zone system.

    Following instructions for installing a two-zone system

    See More
  • Integrate a heat pump with a boiler mounted on a brick wall.

    How to integrate a heat pump with a boiler for dual temperature hydronic heating and cooling

    See More

Related Products

See More Products
  • 51CHeeKvw4L._SX322_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    Hydronic Radiant Heating: A Practical Guide for the Nonengineer Installer

  • Inspector Book.jpg

    Lessons Learned: A Guide to Boilers for Home Inspectors

  • Lessons Learned in a Boiler Room: A common sense approach to servicing and installing commercial boilers

See More Products
×

Keep your content unclogged with our newsletters!

Stay in the know on the latest plumbing & piping industry trends.

JOIN TODAY!
  • RESOURCES
    • Advertise
    • Contact Us
    • Directories
    • Store
    • Want More
    • Supply House Times
  • SIGN UP TODAY
    • Create Account
    • eMagazine
    • Newsletter
    • Customer Service
    • Manage Preferences
  • SERVICES
    • Marketing Services
    • Reprints
    • Market Research
    • List Rental
    • Survey/Respondent Access
  • STAY CONNECTED
    • LinkedIn
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • YouTube
    • X (Twitter)
  • PRIVACY
    • PRIVACY POLICY
    • TERMS & CONDITIONS
    • DO NOT SELL MY PERSONAL INFORMATION
    • PRIVACY REQUEST
    • ACCESSIBILITY

Copyright ©2025. All Rights Reserved BNP Media.

Design, CMS, Hosting & Web Development :: ePublishing